new HSU VTF-15H

[yromj]

I know there's a lot of talk on the web about one thing being good for music and something else being good for movies. I agree w/ DIYer that good is good, period.

I would think that having the sub ported in the configuration Bats is currently using would be about optimal.

John

 

[Dentman]

I for one am Very interested in seeing some hard data on these new subs. I'm very much pulling for them to measure out well. I'm a big fan of the use of dual subs (when done right and not for looks) for many reasons. It would be real nice to know you could get two top notch (not necessarily the best, but solid) subs for under 2k.
I'm not much of a bass junkie so unless I had a very large room I would never need more then one of those beasts for output reasons. I do admittedly like to run a sub/s hot by about 7-10 db for movies, and about 2-4 db hot for music. I had never had a situation in my old theater that was roughly 16x23 where my simply SVS 20-39 ever came close to stressing out even well above what many would consider reference levels. I would have however likes to have the flexibility to carefully place another sub to help even things out. Tough to do but very doable.

 

[Dentman]

I agree and disagree about the whole good for music and movies thing. There are a whole lot of people on this forum who run their subs way way hot for movies. I have no problem with that, but admit it . There are many people who enjoy an exaggerated type of sound for movie watching, I'm one of them, just to a lot less of a degree them most.

 

[Flint]

is changing settings for music to movies(once you figure out which settings to use)as simple as swicthing the dial in back?or do you have to go into reciever menu? have you listened to music mode yet? i am really interested in your opinion on that subject with your new purchase.

I don't see why there should be separate settings for the two. What sounds good for music should be good for movie as well.

im probably wrong but i thought that sub was desinged to use sealed for music and ported for movies,but i cant even remember why i thought that.

You are, indeed, wrong.

Caveat: A good sounding sound (which is rare) will sound excellent no matter what the source. After all, if a sub is clean, accurate, balanced, and dynamic, it will ideally reproduce the signal. Being sealed or ported is an independent design approach which has nothing to do with the type of content being reproduced but more to do with the design goals of the company manufacturing and marketing a sub.

A crappy sub is crappy any way you look at it, so getting one crappy sub to sound less crappy for music and a different crappy sub to sound less crappy for movies might make sense - but still, the idea that sealed or ported is a defining factor of crappiness is a fallacy.

 

[nats]

and MY sub IS crappy,thats why im hoping for good reviews since its at an affordable price

 

[Batman]

I just finished my perusal (over the course of several of days) of all 47 pages on this sub over on AVS, and don't regret my decision to go with this product. It continues to receive rave user reviews and compliments. Those who have implemented two, have mentioned noticeable and substantial improvements/output. I have yet to witness this since my second one is still in the box. But am looking forward to letting it out (possibly later today). I have three placement options for the second which will be practical for the way my room is set up. First is co-located right next to the first on either side of my center, second is each sub flanking my center, subs placed on sides with woofers inside closer to the center or outside closer to my mains, third is in a more near-field placement in the smallish corner along the right wall just past my rack and near my second row of seats actually placed on the riser...I have the flexibility to try all these options.

 

[MatthewB]

I'd go stereo configuration like last year when you had the dual Dynaudio subs. I recall I was very impressed with the blending that way and this coming from me with all my subs all over my great room.

 

[Towen7]

This is along the lines of the question nelms asked about using two non-identical subs in one room. I'd just assume that locating both drivers as close as possbile to each other is ideal, but I don't have any specific knowledge about why.

 

[PaulyT]

I'd go stereo configuration like last year when you had the dual Dynaudio subs. I recall I was very impressed with the blending that way and this coming from me with all my subs all over my great room.

That wasn't stereo - just dual mono.

 

[yromj]

This is along the lines of the question nelms asked about using two non-identical subs in one room. I'd just assume that locating both drivers as close as possbile to each other is ideal, but I don't have any specific knowledge about why.

The subs will act as one sub that way. Which, btw, is why I don't like the idea of co-locating two non-identical subs. Two different subs will have two sets of distortion charecteristics and as such won't sound the same.

John

 

[Towen7]

The subs will act as one sub that way. Which, btw, is why I don't like the idea of co-locating two non-identical subs. Two different subs will have two sets of distortion charecteristics and as such won't sound the same.

John

Isn't that the point of putting them in the same spot? Can you hear the difference between the subs when they are colocated in a mono configuration? or will their combined characteristics essential become one unique sub?

I can see the argument against having two different subs playing a single source in two different parts of the room.

 

[yromj]

The point of co-locating them is so that both drivers interact with the room the same way.

As far as the distortion goes, each sub is going to have its own distortion which will almost definitely be different than the other sub's distortion. That means that the distortion "signatures" will add together and thus result in the new "single sub" having more distortion than either sub alone. All of this for the gain of 3dBs or less? It's just not worth it, IMHO.

John

 

[nelmr]

What about the non identical subs being used to help smooth overall room response? Would this be preferable than using them collocated. If output could be matched, there still would be 3dB gain compared to 6dB collocated. In my cause with the 20-39, The gain would only be 1.2dB. So the only potential benefit I'd have would be smoothing the response.

Also, regarding the combining of distortion, are you sure it would be an issue? If using the gain (4dB in my case) from collocation to allow the HSU and/or SVS to not have to work as hard, wouldn't that lower overall distortion? In other words each configuration should have nearly the same overall output level:

HSU by it self, relative level (0dB)
HSU -7dB, SVS -5dB = +0.07804dB
HSU -4.5dB, SVS -8dB = -0.05429dB
HSU -2.5dB, SVS -12dB = +0.00940dB

And if I wanted to play louder than just the HSU by itself, I could do the following (yes with more distortion, but it does give more output):
HSU +0dB, SVS -5db = +4dB

So I can see the argument with the +4dB gain being used for max output (causing more distortion), but I'm not sure that there is more distortion when the gain is used to lower the level of BOTH subs. I would think there would be less.

Are you saying that this latter case would just be a wash and it would be better to just use one? In the former case, you have more output capability despite the extra distortion. That may still be useful for movies with lots of deep bass.

 

[yromj]

What about the non identical subs being used to help smooth overall room response? Would this be preferable than using them collocated. If output could be matched, there still would be 3dB gain compared to 6dB collocated. In my cause with the 20-39, The gain would only be 1.2dB. So the only potential benefit I'd have would be smoothing the response.

Also, regarding the combining of distortion, are you sure it would be an issue? If using the gain (4dB in my case) from collocation to allow the HSU and/or SVS to not have to work as hard, wouldn't that lower overall distortion? In other words each configuration should have nearly the same overall output level:

HSU by it self, relative level (0dB)
HSU -7dB, SVS -5dB = +0.07804dB
HSU -4.5dB, SVS -8dB = -0.05429dB
HSU -2.5dB, SVS -12dB = +0.00940dB

And if I wanted to play louder than just the HSU by itself, I could do the following (yes with more distortion, but it does give more output):
HSU +0dB, SVS -5db = +4dB

So I can see the argument with the +4dB gain being used for max output (causing more distortion), but I'm not sure that there is more distortion when the gain is used to lower the level of BOTH subs. I would think there would be less.

Are you saying that this latter case would just be a wash and it would be better to just use one? In the former case, you have more output capability despite the extra distortion. That may still be useful for movies with lots of deep bass.

Using the 2nd sub to try to smooth room response would be the best use of it, IMHO, if you're going to keep it in that room. The distortion I'm talking about from the sub isn't due to stress or related to output in any way. I'm simply talking about the distortion that every speaker system has and is there no matter the volume level. You will have less distortion using the Hsu by itself rather than using the two together.

John

 

[nelmr]

Using the 2nd sub to try to smooth room response would be the best use of it, IMHO, if you're going to keep it in that room.
John

Would the SVS help smooth room response if it's running -5dB relative to the HSU? Or does it have to be the same SPL to be of benefit for the nulls and modes? I would probably position it in the front left corner (HSU in the front right).

 

[Towen7]

I can't imagine that it'll be as easy as simply adjusting the gain on one sub or another based on an equation. I think in order to smooth any nulls your going to need a RTA and a lot of patience while tweeking each sub while running pink noise on one main speaker, and then the other.

 

[nelmr]

I can't imagine that it'll be as easy as simply adjusting the gain on one sub or another based on an equation. I think in order to smooth any nulls your going to need a RTA and a lot of patience while tweeking each sub while running pink noise on one main speaker, and then the other.

I realize it isn't ideal, but would using the RS Meter, a laptop's built in mic in, and Room EQ Wizard be enough to get an idea of what works best. Along with listening with my ears? This approach would not cost anything extra.

 

[Towen7]

I've never used REW so I can't say does it allow you to see the room response in real-time?

Other than that... can't you use the RS meter as a mic instead of the built in mic on the laptop?

 

[nelmr]

I've never used REW so I can't say does it allow you to see the room response in real-time?

Other than that... can't you use the RS meter as a mic instead of the built in mic on the laptop?

REW can do 1/48 octave RTA. Regarding the mic, I meant to plug the RS meter into the laptops mic in port. I know it's not accurate and I can use the correction curves online to somewhat help. I would think it should show if the second sub is helping smooth the peaks and valley though.

 

[Towen7]

Sounds like a plan.